File talk:PapalMass1.JPG

I noticed that there are two tiaras there. Why is that? Would the Pope wear one for the procession going in, and another one for the procession going out? If so, which wouild he choose for each?

Also, was it normal to have a mitre and the tiaras actually on the altar? Nowadays it's pretty clear that we're not supposed to put anything on the altar, except for the species for Consecration, a missal with stand, and maybe a crucifix and microphone. And the Ceremonial of Bishops forbids putting the zucchetto on the altar after the Bishop removes it for the Sanctus. So why are there a mitre and the two tiaras on the altar? Or are they on separate stands that I just can't see in the photo?J.J. Bustamante 07:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

20:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

In the Old Rite there was nothing wrong with placing objects on the altar. Also, i have no idea why the tiaras are there as the pope would never wear on in procession before, anytime during, or in procession after a Mass.75.42.221.98 20:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pope John XXIII used many Papal tiaras before and after the Papal Masses in his pontificate. For your information.Smith2006 (talk) 18:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He could wear only one tiara in the procession. Who wore the other? 195.74.255.151 (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For your information, while it was okay to place those items on the altar in the past, the reason for which the papal tiaras are on the alter is because Pope John Paul II decided to place them their as a means of demonstrating that the Pope has no need for tempral power. He effectively denied the church that authority during this particular cerimony. It was a means of making the church more "humble" in appreance and as a means of declaring the obvious, ' ' the pope doesn't control your every day life, only your spirital one' ' in a matter of speaking. Also, the Pope is not forbidened from wearing the tiara, they chose not to. In fact, it was around 1940 that the popes stoped wearing the tiara as a sign of an end to tempral authority. John Paul II meerly reflects that in this cerimoney in which he places the tiaras on the altar as a way of saying that all those gathered are "equal in a spiritual and tempral sense," as well as a means of reaffirming the pope's decision in the 1940's to put an end to tempral authority. You can find more of this information under "POPEs" and "John Paul II" and his predesseors. User: EricSRodrigues154

The picture is supposed to have been taken long before the time of Pope John Paul II. 195.74.255.151 (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In reveiwing the suggestion, I believe that the photo that has "been suggested for deletion" should not be deleted for 3 reasons:

1. It is a photo depicting the head of a soveirgn state & government (Pope John Paul II & Vatican City). 2. It is in the public domain as a result fo the first remark. 3. It meets all of "Wikipedia's Public domain & license for usage on pertinant subjects" and should therefore not be deleted. User: EricSRodrigues154

I second that, Mr Enrique Rodrigues. This image is perfectly legitimate to use at wikipedia.Smith2006 (talk) 18:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't look like a "privately made picture". Seems to be a professionally made picture: note the exactness of the vertical lines. The slight fuzziness suggests it is a scanning of a picture in a publication. 195.74.255.151 (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]