File talk:Hudson County, New Jersey Municipalities.png

This is the discussion/talk page for Image:Hudson County, New Jersey Municipalities.png.

Townships in New Jersey are "incorporated." This map is misleading by using the label "incorporated place" to refer to the other types of municipalities. Unincorporated parts of counties are more common down South and out West; where there are places with no local government where the County itself administers services. Not true in NJ. 204.52.215.13 18:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

25-Aug-2007: I have verified that NJ townships have been incorporated for over 300 years (see: "Newark was incorporated as a township in 1693" in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica article, webpage: www.1911encyclopedia.org/Newark,_New_Jersey). The label "incorporated place" could be changed to "City or Town" for this Hudson County map. Thanks for the note, and I realize there are other Wiki "facts" at least 300 years out-of-date. It's a challenge to get people to focus on long-term concerns. -Wikid77 23:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

23-Aug-2007: This file is purposely being maintaining in PNG format (along with a GIF-format version) for longitudinal studies of Wikipedia performance, of PNG versus GIF format. Such studies are needed to avoid OR (original-research) claims of performance, but rather, show actual live examples in Wikipedia-image displays compared over a period of years. This image is intended to co-exist as a PNG version of the equivalent GIF-format image for years (not days) to compare performance while evolving Wikimedia software is modified over those years. -Wikid77 06:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are multiple formats (GIF & PNG) for the county map:

• GIF format: Image:Map Hudson County New Jersey municipalities.gif
• PNG format: Image:Hudson County, New Jersey Municipalities.png.

The 2 versions are intended to co-exist for years, as the long-term performance of the evolving Wiki software is studied. -Wikid77 06:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

23-Aug-2007: In August 2007, the GIF file stored as 22kb, while the PNG stored as 20kb (10% less). However, when displayed as resized to 350px thumbnails, the GIF file displayed as 24kb while the PNG file resized for 350px displayed as 65kb (PNG about 2.7x slower than GIF), offering further evidence that such a map should NOT be re-converted into slower PNG format from GIF.

Even for a smaller thumbnail size of 130px, the GIF file was nearly 2.3x times faster/thinner than the PNG file (see properties/size tabs of the 2 displayed thumbnails at right), with the resized PNG image using 16614 bytes and GIF using 7108b: ratio 16614 / 7108 = 2.337.

Studies from 2006 showed similar performance on Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons: GIF files were typically displayed 2.7x (or 3x) times faster than PNG files at the same image width. Images displayed on Wikimedia Commons showed the same performance difference (GIF nearly 3x faster than PNG), as though Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons used the same image-display software, for resizing image files. -Wikid77 06:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Preparing images for upload. PNG should be used instead of GIF because it is a superior format. GIF only allows a 255-color indexed palette with 1-bit transparency. PNG has an indexed color mode, plus a RGB (24-bit) and RGBA (32-bit) colorspace options. Furthermore, GIF has been patent-encumbered. GIF uses the LZW compression algorithm, and PNG uses the superior DEFLATE compression algorithm. All of this makes PNG the superior format, it provides a super-set of the capabilities of GIF, with better compression. These features make it the raster format of choice for image representation, and this is a wide consensus in Wikipedia.

As for the size of the automatically-resized images, this is because the image manipulation (not display) software being used by MediaWiki is always creating 32-bit RGBA PNG files regardless of the color specification type being used in the source PNG image. This could of course be better, but that is no reason to move to GIF format.

PNG format is used because of its features, not just its size characteristics. These features make it a superior format for modifications, not just for display.

Please stop wasting everyone's time by spinning our wheels reversing your changes. PNG as a superior format has wide consensus. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 12:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

25-Aug-2007: To User:ChrisRuvolo: GIF is the preferred format for animation, beyond the capabilities of the PNG format, not just because it displays 3x times faster than PNG. Note that the derogatory opinion ("stop wasting everyone's time") is a POV-slanted statement, not condoned by Wikpedia policies. Please read WP policies about civility in working with other editors. Many people seem to be obsessed about PNG format and display rabid behavior, even to the possibility of comparing performance; such behavior is discouraged by Wikipedia policies. The truth that GIF files display 3x times faster than PNG-format should not be censored. -Wikid77 21:44, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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