File talk:Diagram of waterwheel or azud function.jpg

The third diagram of a tooth appears back-to-front in relation to the other four. Mspritch (talk) 13:03, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it appears mirrored horizontally (left-right). Also there appear to be more issues:

1. #1 and #2 have the basis (that is, the straight, shorter side, which is attached to the big wheel) both horizontal, which means that they must protrude horizontally, and therefore be positioned at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, in other words, at half the height of they wheel. That would only be possible if the lower half of the wheel was completely submerged.
2. #4 has the basis at an angle of about 40°, which indicates it is positioned at about 5 o'clock. That would be lower than half the height of the wheel which would not be very efficient in terms of making good use of the size of the wheel.
3. #4 shows an opening at the far end of the convex side. Such an opening would also make the water flow out in the position shown in #3 (assuming there is no valve blocking it).

I will notify the creator. — Sebastian 09:40, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is a video of the demonstration wheel at Aranjuez in action, and it is correct that the "V" shaped bucket must be entirely submerged to be filled, and that the water pressure (flow) against the curved surface is the only impulsion. The design dates from the golden age of Islam about 1000 years ago - Next time I visit I will try to photograph the information board, which is in Spanish and attempt a translation of that. Meanwhile how about asking a local school craft class to try to make a working demonstration, maybe with just one bucket? Thanks for your feedback, Timpo (talk) 11:45, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your reply, and for posting the video. Unfortunately I'm not good at seeing how it works from the video; it's too fast for me. For me, a standing image like the one labelled "A noria in Spain" work better. Or this one here, which shows how the water flows out. The two wheels from Aranjuez are very elegant in that their buckets double as paddles, but I now realize that that makes the function less obvious, since the buckets have unusual shapes, and their openings are at unusual places. For a school project, I would definitely rather recommend the bucket+paddle design. — Sebastian 17:59, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A very poor choice for illustration. The image should be removed because the explanatory diagram is self-contradicting, confused, confusing and mostly wrong. I have read some pages which have photos, history and accounts of the recent reconstruction of this device. Geographical location is (40.05348, -3.61165). Video at [1]

At that location there were succesive wheels beginning in the mid 18th century. Around 1844 the first all-metal wheel was built[2]. In 1880 was built a 12 meter diameter wheel which survived into the early 20th century (1927) (la famosa Azuda de 12 metros de diámetro que elevaba las aguas para regar la finca ‘La Montaña’, propiedad de Joaquín Ahumada, quién en junio de 1880 solicitó permiso para su instalación [3]). It was a unique, unusual design, product of the industril revolution and not representative of earlier, traditional water wheels. A photo of the wheel in 1902 can be seen at [4] That wheel survived in use until the early 20th century and has been rebuilt recently (2013). I have not found confirmation that the new wheel is an exact replica of the old one. I see more indications that it is a new design as engineering calculations are mentioned more than sticking to a faithful reproduction. I believe there is a good chance that no exact plans of the old wheel survive and the new one is just an approximate reproduction of the old one. All this makes this image a poor and not representative example of most traditional water wheels. It is not complicated to understand. The vessel is only the upper part of the fin because if it were the entire fin it would be too big and heavy.

Photos and account of restoration can be seen at [5]

Night photos of the reconstruction [6]

For more information search Google Images for Azuda de la Montaña Aranjuez for plenty of photos.

I'll see if I can get my backside out there in the coming weeks or months and get some decent photos and dimensions. GS3 (talk) 22:50, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]